‘Caste In The USA’ is a podcast collection analyzing the pervasiveness of caste discrimination amongst Indians within the US, hosted by Equality Labs’ Thenmozhi Soundararajan. This is Episode 8.
Editor’s observe: Firstpost is holding a collection of conversations with Indians within the US, throughout its campuses, places of work and households, to grasp how caste discrimination pervades the group simply as a lot because it does again dwelling in India. Hosted by Thenmozhi Soundararajan, Dalit rights activist, artist, technologist and govt director of Equality Labs, the podcast cracks taboos about caste amongst Indians within the US. Listen to extra episodes right here.
In Episode 8:
“This incident happened just ten days ago. I want to bring this up as I have talked about a similar incident 14 years ago. The situation is the same now. I always, always avoid Indians at the workplace, Indians in a restaurant, Indians in any place I have to have a conversation with them because the conversation always goes in the wrong direction. So when I had to meet with an Indian physician in the middle of the pandemic, I had no choice. This Indian physician as soon as he entered, he looked at my chart and the first question he asked was, ‘Your name throws me off. Reina doesn’t really come from Hindu name. Your last name is kind of different, I am confused, are you Indian?” I mentioned, “Yes, I am very much Indian.” I already knew where this was going. He did not focus on my health but the first thing he is so stuck at is my name and then he asked, “Where does this name come from?” I said this is part of India. And the next question was which part of India? Where does it belong to? I knew which direction this was going, because this wasn’t the first time this was happening.”
The story talked about above is Reina’s, a visitor speaker from immediately’s episode of Caste within the USA. She has labored for a number of years as a public well being skilled within the US. Through her experiences, Reina highlights the bias within the public well being subject with relationship to caste, given her numerous expertise working with Indians versus non-Indians. While the previous had her watch an undeserving upper-caste colleague be protected and promoted by a supervisor of the identical group, working with non-Indians acquired her a profitable profession as a substitute.
Joining Reina to talk additional about casteism inside healthcare within the USA is Dr Pradeep. Both of them, in dialog with host Thenmozhi Soundararajan, reiterate a number of frequent narratives – from ignorance and caste pleasure fuelling dominant caste supremacy in colleagues inside healthcare to having the ability to thrive solely in non-Indian workplaces.
Listen to Caste within the USA, Episode Eight right here:
Read the entire transcript for Episode 8:
Thenmozhi Soundararajan: Jai Bhim and Jai Savitri, everybody. I’m Thenmozhi Soundararajan, and that is Caste In the United States with Firstpost. Today’s episode is an exploration of caste in medication and we’re joined by the great Pardeep and Reina who’ve collectively labored a few years in well being care as a health care provider and as a public well being skilled respectively. They are going to share with us their expertise of caste on this subject and let’s simply dig in. So welcome everybody.
So Pardeep, let’s begin with you. You have been a health care provider for a few years and I’m simply questioning what was is it wish to expertise your time within the diaspora as a Dalit physician?
Pardeep: I’ve been straight concerned within the healthcare subject for the final 5 to six years and the experiences I wish to share throughout this episode. In one incident, they had been straight investigating my caste id based mostly on my final identify. And this query was very direct and was coming from a detailed pal and through the dialog he presumed that my final identify is a Jat caste earlier than I answered him. I nervous to right him to flee social isolation and this incident occurred in 2015 once I invited him to my home for dinner. So I work in a hospital setting once we getting an opportunity we take a break within the doctor lounge. I occurred to be there throughout break time once I heard this heart specialist, Indian heart specialist, speaking negatively about Indian reservation system.
Reservation coverage in India is a type of affirmative motion similar to the US. This heart specialist was upset about why second-generation Dalits utilise the affirmative motion profit when their mother and father have used it as soon as. And you realize it is a quite common dialogue matter nearly daily in a tutorial setting in India in a single or the opposite kind. I used to be stunned to listen to from this heart specialist such uneducated reasoning. This is a heart specialist who has been within the United States for over 30 years and I really feel pity for him that he has not inculcated the democratic values of the US that embrace affirmative motion.
Just like all American would really feel happy with the primary modification proper I’m definitely [unclear 2:18] ‘sir why do you think so? Why should second generation Dalit children in India not avail reservation policy? He reacted before letting me finish to give his answer, ‘oh they are taking the share of scheduled castes who are also known as Dalits, poor Dalit people who can also benefit from the reservation policy.’ This is the explanation we hear from each higher caste in India in all disciplines. So I questioned additional, probing him, ‘Do you’ve got any information to help your assertion? It is perhaps interesting to your feelings what you simply mentioned now however are you aware what number of college students have benefitted from reservation coverage since India acquired independence? How a lot of them had been first-generation and what number of of them second-generation? So his reply was restricted to his private expertise that one in all his school buddies from lower-caste or Dalit who’s a doctor in India. His youngsters additionally utilise the reservation coverage, they need to not have used it. Replying again to him I mentioned, “Sir you realise your data is one person I am talking about ground reality, I am talking about 20% of India.” He had no reply. It appeared like he was offended now so probing him additional I requested, ‘Do you realize the place reservation coverage is talked about within the Indian Constitution and what does it say?’ Now he was extra irritated that why I’m interrogating him so I defined to him, ‘Sir let me help you, reservation policy is mentioned in part III of Indian constitution, it comes under Fundamental Rights. Article 15 and 16 talks about reservation policy for Dalits in case you are not aware of it.’
I can inform that he was Brahmin by caste, based mostly on his final identify so to alter the dialog in the direction of him I mentioned, “You know physician, the judiciary in India is stuffed with Brahmins, nearly 60% of judges within the Supreme Court of India are from Brahmin caste and you realize due to such incompetent judges, Indian justice system is in peril. More than 100,00 circumstances pending and since Indian independence, they haven’t produced any landmark judgements which have the utility of public good. Moreover, to extend your data there isn’t any aggressive examination for them regardless of the advice on the time of adoption of the structure. They have gotten these positions merely on the idea of nepotism, and also you already know their efficiency. Such incompetent efficiency just isn’t a priority to you and you’re extra involved about second-generation Dalits taking the good thing about reservation coverage.’
Now you possibly can think about he was so infuriated and he mentioned ‘oh you are out of your mind, where did you get this data?’ So I quietly answered ‘sir you are a cardiologist, you know cardiology but please get some basic knowledge of Indian constitution and reservation policy before you say so in the future.’ And no additional altercation since that one episode. Since then he would attempt to keep away from me within the hospital hall. I used to be very shocked you realize upper-caste medical doctors even once they transfer to the United States or every other nation the caste-based hatred of their thoughts remains to be alive after many years.
Thenmozhi Soundararajan: Yes I feel it’s attention-grabbing. Our earlier company all discuss how dominant castes usually scale back the dialog of caste to solely to one in all reservation. Why do you assume that is Pardeep?
Pardeep: That’s an excellent query. I feel it has to do with how higher caste individuals in India narrate their very own conception about reservation. As I discussed this specific heart specialist who was Brahmin by caste has no concept why the necessity for reservation coverage. This is all manipulated by their politicians, by the media the way it portrays to the general public these individuals with lack of any background data about reservation coverage they’ve emotional attraction with none background information to say that is dangerous occurring to them or that is misusing this. I feel it’s a lack of know-how which attributes extra to such a story. And clearly, they don’t need to see any Dalit rising as much as their stage. They are glad when you find yourself cleansing the road or when you find yourself working as guide scavenger or tanning lifeless cow it’s okay for them, they’re glad however as you see you’re competing with them in each subject of life, in each self-discipline that’s when this hatred turns into very apparent and really blatant.
Thenmozhi Soundararajan: You know one other factor that you just shared simply now additionally struck as fairly attention-grabbing to me and that’s that you realize I feel lots of people within the diaspora assume that casteism all the time occurs between Brahmins and different castes. Brahmins are the one perpetrators of casteist experiences however actually in your case, for instance, a jat particular person was asking you what your caste might have been, and looks as if what we’re seeing is a number of casteism between completely different castes, like even the center castes. Do you’ve got any ideas on that Pardeep?
Pardeep: Sure, when it comes to jats, they’re primarily concentrated within the North a part of India particularly in Punjab and Haryana. And they’re within the conventional Hindu system, they fall underneath the class known as Shudras or these days they’re generally known as Other Backward Class. Some of them as a result of they had been economically well-off based mostly on the land distribution insurance policies in order that they had been moved to ahead castes they by no means went into so-called upper-castes, by no means promoted to that stage however they had been moved to ahead castes or common class and so they have embraced this form of mindset as a result of now the notion of superiority based mostly on caste from Brahminical construction is driving the caste system particularly in Jats. Most of them, in the event you had been to speak to them, usually are not conscious of their very own background or historical past.
Thenmozhi Soundararajan: And you realize Pardeep, that is such an enormous factor within the diaspora as a result of you’ve got a really, very robust Punjabi and Sikh Jat group that’s continuously creating content material whether or not it’s youtube movies or hip hop songs it’s all about flashing Jat superiority. And for lots of the Punjabi children that I do know, for them, they’re leaning into this mode of casteist tradition as a result of they see it as a method of resistance to white supremacy. They need to be their tradition and I met children that had been Jat, it’s like a tribal id we was the tribes in energy, and I used to be like the place is that this nonsense and miseducation occurring. Because they’re all earnest children who’re scuffling with rather a lot completely different financial and racial discrimination however on the identical time they don’t realise that they’re taking over the mantle of deeply casteist positions as effectively. So there may be miseducation occurring on each grounds of this.
Pardeep: That is so true in the event you go to any village of Punjab you will notice the identical conceitedness, the identical Brahminical mindset of Jat individuals. Even individuals from Shudras and OBC which falls underneath the umbrella of shudra within the Brahminical construction, they’ve by no means been the narrative setters in order that they observe the books or the system of Brahmins and they’re those who’ve created this narrative of superiority. Now since they’re somewhat bit well-off in order that they adopted this blindly and that is among the inherent biases in a caste system there’s a graded system the place one feels higher than others as a result of they aren’t discriminated by somebody superior to them. Especially, in Punjab, particularly from Jat group I’ve not seen any mental to date who has come into prominence on the nationwide or worldwide prominence stage that has depicted their precise historical past like Dr Ambedkar from the Dalit group. He had introduced Dalit historical past, shudra historical past to the forefront on the nationwide and worldwide stage. That element within the Jat group is missing so I feel their entire narrative is what the Brahmin has force-fed them within the colleges or of their spiritual temples or Gurudwaras. I feel that has to do with how they understand this notion of Brahminical superiority and them.
Thenmozhi Soundararajan: I actually need to carry Reina into this dialog. Reina I do know you’re a public well being official and you’ve got been on this subject for a few years and from my earlier dialog, I do know that you just really had a really difficult time along with your managers who was dominant caste. Can you share what occurred and the way that sheds mild when it comes to the bias within the public well being subject with relationship to caste?
Reina: Hi Thenmozi Jai Bhim and thanks for giving us this platform to speak specific caste bias within the medical subject and public well being subject. So sure once I was working in a laboratory in a hospital and I had this coworker and supervisor who belonged to the identical group. My co-worker was all the time depressed as a result of she was not handled the best way she is handled in India and she or he was very vocal about it. The phrases had been precisely the identical as what I’m saying she used to say how individuals right here don’t deal with her increased or superior the best way she was handled in India. In India she was handled so extremely individuals would bow in entrance of her and no one would query her as a result of she belonged to the next caste and right here individuals don’t care. People discuss on her face or level her errors out in her face. So she was very depressed about that and she or he was very vocal about that, not that she was looking for the caste of different Indian individuals however she was very depressed as to why she was not being handled increased right here and she or he would all the time throw her caste right here. We had a really numerous working group however we had primarily or extra Indians however on the identical time, we had others who had been white/Caucasians, Afro-Americans and Hispanics. When she was throwing her caste to all these co-workers or her superiors too they’d simply have a face that they’re disgusted and they might attempt to inquire about her so they’d discover one other India to grasp what the caste system is to grasp why she is behaving that means. And since I used to be not from the identical group as my supervisor and my this coworker that I discussed, they’d significantly catch me throughout lunchtime to study extra about it and they might query me however why is she all the time flaunting her caste on us now we have nothing to do along with her caste, who’s she, why does she try this, what’s the psychology behind it. Most of my time could be spent in explaining to them what the caste system, and that she comes from the upper-caste and so they do atrocity on others and no one has the heart to query them. And particularly the actual co-worker comes from a village the place the caste system is deep-rooted and practised to the core. So after studying that they’d say however that’s India why can’t she retains that thoughts in India and work as a workforce as a result of American values are about teamwork and respecting the variety right here. So this occurred and in addition she was all the time backed by the supervisor who was from the identical group as her. It was very miserable and I labored there for shut to 5 years and as quickly as I left that office I used to be by no means given a increase there, I used to be by no means given a great analysis rating there and this co-worker was promoted and her affected person care expertise had been actually, actually dangerous. Patients would complain, some sufferers went to increased ranges, to the CEO to complain towards my co-worker’s affected person care expertise and this co-worker would get very upset how dare they query me or how dare they complain about me. They don’t know what caste I belong these are phrases she used to make use of. And as quickly as I left that office and I moved to a different very, very up-scale hospital which comes within the top-ten hospitals I moved to this hospital I used to be promoted inside 4 years. So that have made me really feel wow I used to be going through casteism there in America. So this was my expertise over 14 years in the past. This was my first expertise and I used to be very new to the US and I used to be nonetheless studying the tradition right here, nonetheless studying the whole lot and I used to be within the mindset that in India they’ve normalised the caste discrimination a lot that even whenever you come to the US you don’t query it. I used to be very younger so I by no means actually questioned it however I did really feel the distinction once I moved to a brand new hospital and I used to be promoted and I used to be appreciated for my work and I had no Indian co-workers there or managers, the group was very numerous.
Thenmozhi Soundararajan: This is once more a standard thread that now we have been listening to from different Dalits on our podcast is that when Dalits are being supervised by anybody of non-Indian origin they succeed, they thrive however when you find yourself underneath dominant caste supervision there may be all the time some drawback significantly in the event that they discover out that you’re Dalit you realize and in lots of circumstances usually goes again to your instructional setting. And that is what I’m inquisitive about, now we have heard rather a lot about how casteist the tech universities are however is the sphere of public well being casteist? What was your coaching like?
Reina: So whereas I used to be going to highschool for public well being I made this Indian pal as a result of whenever you come from India you’re all the time on the lookout for the identical tradition individuals, no less than from India to be able to communicate your language since you are nonetheless not fluent in English. You can expertise the identical meals, the identical tradition so I made this pal who got here on a pupil visa and was doing the identical diploma at the moment and she or he was on the lookout for a job to be able to afford her tuition sp she was working in an India restaurant close by. While she was working one time we had this dialog about the place she comes from in India as a result of she was Punjabi however she comes from a special a part of India the place the Punjabis usually are not increased in share so she was mentioning, she was from Indore, India and I had by no means heard any Punjabi coming from Indore so I used to be wow I by no means heard any Punjabi coming from there and as I mentioned that she mentioned ‘you realize I’m not only a Punjabi I’m increased caste Jat Punjabi. The means she flaunted her caste type of pushed me away from retaining her in my pal circle I used to be like wow I want to remain away. As quickly as she flaunted her caste after which she was having hassle as a result of she was working in an India restaurant the place she needed to choose up as a waiter and she or he didn’t like her job. Not as a result of there was a problem with coworkers, her principal situation was ‘I belong to a Jat group, a wealthy group, increased caste and I don’t like to select up individuals’s soiled dishes from their desk and serving them that’s not my job’. That was her remark and she or he stop her job as quickly as she acquired one other job. She was by no means glad in that job as a result of it was not her caste work to do. So that have was whereas I used to be getting coaching. I used to be in Public Health coaching in order that was throughout college time.
Thenmozhi Soundararajan: Yeah and you actually see that that is additionally a development that you just see a number of dominant caste Indians like beginning to settle and assume in a different way good or dangerous as a result of as soon as they’re exterior the caste hegemonies of India and so they come to the diaspora they’re confronted with what it feels wish to be put into one other hierarchy and a few individuals take it as a problem to alter and in addition you realize to drop their caste privilege whereas others actually use it to sediment and actually lean into their caste dominance. So it’s actually attention-grabbing to see how that impacts you as a result of these alumni networks are highly effective significantly in case you are leaning on them to get jobs. But Reina I do know that you’ve labored with different medical professionals along with your position in public well being and the casteism amongst medical professionals can also be fairly damning and you’ve got a pal Lalita who’s a nurse who works at a boarding treatment facility and she or he had some fairly intensive casteist exchanges as effectively. I’m questioning in the event you discuss somewhat about that?
Reina: Sure, so I’ve this pal of mine she can also be very near me. We occurred to debate our caste and she or he talked about she works in a boarding care facility and I used to be asking her are you open about your caste at your office amongst the Indian individuals and she or he mentioned no I can’t even when I need to. I used to be like why, you’re dwelling in America why can’t you open up about caste as a result of I do have some Indian nurses working with me as co-workers and they’re all the time flaunting their Jat caste and their communities are so wealthy and they’re higher caste and they’re so good, they’ve their very own motion pictures and the whole lot they dominant and the opposite remark that these nurses had made was all the time speaking down concerning the schedule castes or Dalit individuals. In Punjabi group the Dalits are principally addressed as chamars, so she mentioned they all the time say chamar is that this, attraction are disgusting, chamar that. So she mentioned even I need I might by no means open up about my caste as a result of they’d be discriminating towards me and the subsequent factor I do know we might be consuming meals I might all the time really feel uncomfortable as a result of they’d by no means share their desk with me. So this the present work setting in public well being.
Thenmozhi Soundararajan: I’ve heard this story from Punjabi Dalits from all throughout California, the place fields you don’t anticipate caste being in – the meeting line of a canning firm, or as you had been saying in medicare and even like mother and pop outlets – this query of Jat dominance and in addition the utilization of chamar as a slur and unfavourable feedback appears to be so prevalent. Without caste as a protected class, we aren’t in a position to create the sorts of cures we’d like within the office or in our instructional establishments to guard individuals’s fundamental rights as a result of once more in the event that they had been saying issues from a racial lens these individuals could be fired, you’ll have a transparent pathway for HR grievance. But on this state of affairs, you don’t actually have something.
Reina: That may be very true, sure. We want that system the place are group feels snug to carry this situation to the HRs so you’re very proper we’d like that.
Pardeep: Thenmozi I completely agree and I feel until caste discrimination is added as a protected class within the US statues until that’s there in regulation there isn’t any deterrent to those casteist individuals. If that is there as a break on their notion of superiority then they’d undoubtedly really feel that pushback that may act to some extent that they aren’t open and they might no less than respect different individuals’s individuality and as a occupation or asl co-worker.
Thenmozhi Soundararajan: And actually the regulation is there for the place individuals’s political will fails proper. Like dominant caste individuals have the proper to be casteist if you wish to be however what they don’t have the proper is to do it in public establishments the place it’s towards the regulation and towards the coverage. So be casteist in your personal dwelling however don’t carry it to the cafeteria, don’t carry it to the message boards, don’t carry it to the place of business the place the impacts the effectiveness of individuals to have the ability to do their jobs and actually the human potential. That’s simply the essential that we have to agree and transfer on from as a result of the not we enable casteism to proceed in these establishments the extra we see the diminishment of our individuals and it’s unacceptable. But I additionally assume Reina there was one other level that you just made concerning the damages of casteist medical professionals since you your self on the client-side and on the affected person facet you had casteist physician and that was very jarring. I’m questioning in the event you may share what your expertise was with our listeners.
Reina: Yeah, positive. This incident occurred simply ten days in the past and I bringing this incident as a result of I’ve talked about an incident that occurred 14 years in the past and that is the state of affairs now. Where I wanted a bodily with a doctor due to the coronavirus pandemic happening the whole lot is delayed. Whatever doctor was out there I selected that doctor. As quickly as I acquired to the doctor’s workplace I learnt that it was presupposed to be doctor assistant and I requested for a doctor as a result of that is the one appointment I get so I might fairly see a doctor than a doctor assistant. And my doctor assistant occurred to be very busy that day so the one doctor now we have out there was so and so and I mentioned that’s high quality and I all the time, all the time keep away from Indians on the office, Indians in a restaurant, Indians in anyplace I’ve to have a dialog with them as a result of the dialog all the time goes within the flawed route. So this Indian doctor I had no alternative right here so I mentioned it’s high quality if there may be an Indian doctor I’m okay. So this Indian doctor as quickly as he enters he’s already taking a look at my chart and the primary query he requested me ‘your name throws me off because Reina doesn’t actually come from Hindu identify. Your identify throws me off and your final identify is type of completely different, I’m confused are you Indian? And I mentioned ‘yes, I am very much Indian’. I answered that and I already know the place that is going. He just isn’t centered on my well being or taking a look at my chart however the very first thing he’s so caught at is my identify and now he began, ‘where does this name come from?’ And I mentioned that is a part of India. And the subsequent query was which a part of India? Where does it belong to? And I used to be like that is going within the very flawed route and I reduce the doctor to say that how had been my stories and what are we going to do. So I reduce him very brief in a really blunt option to present him that I’m not interested by that dialog, let’s get to enterprise. So then the great factor he acquired the concept and it is a very, very outdated doctor he was from the older technology. The different query he talked about was very derogatory and discriminatory not in the direction of caste however they’re all the time patriarchal too. The query of contraception got here up so he requested me are you curious about contraception and I mentioned positive I wish to have one, and so that you already had a boy and that query actually aggravated me. First of all, you ask me a query about my caste and you then present your self to be a really patriarchal particular person, very annoying query after which after that I simply reduce that assembly brief. I do not want a doctor that’s it and I walked out and I ended the go to there.
Thenmozhi Soundararajan: Sorry so he was saying that you’ve already had a boy as a result of…
Reina: He didn’t even undergo my chart as a result of my chart mentions I’ve a daughter so I solely have one little one. So in Indian group, they principally have two youngsters as a result of they need to make certain they’ve a boy. This is your patriarchal thoughts, so he questioned me so you have already got a boy that means you want contraception since you don’t want any extra children, your boy will run your loved ones, your technology.
Thenmozhi Soundararajan: That is simply so sick, so sick. You know what I’m so struck by listening to Reina and in addition to Pardeep this possibly like episode 10 that we’re doing and now we have interviewed many Dalit individuals from completely different origins. Some individuals are born and introduced up within the US, some individuals are immigrants from Punjab, Orissa, Kerala and wherever it’s. And I’m simply struck by how now we have had so many related experiences, ideas and emotions. When Reina was saying that she didn’t need to be round any Indian origin individuals I can relate to that you realize. I didn’t need to work underneath any professor in my graduate college of Indian origin. I used to be simply avoiding that. So it strikes me how related our experiences are despite the fact that we’re such completely different individuals. My final query for Reina really is, you realize all of those difficulties, how do you assume it impacts our social and household life?
Reina: It’s very, very miserable. I select to not meet Indians even once we journey, we journey rather a lot in a foreign country, to study extra about completely different international locations, their cultures, their meals we’re so interested by studying concerning the human evolution going additional. How individuals are completely different. So even once I journey exterior the nation I don’t need to face any Indians anyplace I am going which has additionally introduced us in a really socially remoted setting, the place I do drive myself, generally the isolation will get to a degree, the place I’m okay to regulate, to accommodate, okay I can tolerate a few of the issues of those casteist or Indian individuals as a result of I want that social setting particularly for my little one to develop as effectively. But each time I get slapped and I’ve learnt this lesson the laborious means and I’m nonetheless studying that it is simply by no means labored with Indian individuals. I keep away from Indian in each place and this has actually pushed us into social isolation.
Thenmozhi Soundararajan: And this additionally an important name to motion I feel for Savarna listeners is that if the diaspora is so poisonous that Dalits would fairly be alone than partaking with you that basically requires self-reflection and to alter as a result of we shouldn’t have to do this we aren’t in our homelands we’re within the United States now we have many points for which we are able to unify when it comes to bringing racial fairness and difficult white supremacy. And as a substitute of doing the work, we have to do and in a unified means, individuals are nonetheless simply speaking about reservations as if it’s the 1960s I imply it’s silly. At a sure level, individuals have to acknowledge that the speaking and sustaining of caste privilege is definitely holding us all behind if we actually need to exhibit the fullness of our human potential they should drop their privilege. And we as Dalits get to heal and we get to reside our greatest lives and take up areas that they’ve stored us out of a few years. And once we begin to exist inside fairness who is aware of what is feasible for our individuals as a result of that’s actually the objective. We need see a society the place caste is annihilated and infrequently instances once we say the annihilation of caste individuals concentrate on the destruction half however I really assume we have to concentrate on the highly effective, revolutionary risk of what it means to really see one another as people with out these inhibitor that destroys, diminishes and exploits and that’s actually the style of what Dalits begin to really feel once they left India and what we would like is for everybody to really feel that. So I do know it seems like now we have simply began to scratch the floor of caste in medication. We would like to have you ever guys again on a later episode. But Pardeep and Reina we need to thanks for sharing your experiences so candidly and we look ahead to listening to extra about the way you guys plan to take this evaluation additional. So thanks for becoming a member of us.
Pardeep: Jai Bhim
Reina: Jai Bhim
Transcription by Pritha Bhattacharya
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